Season 13 - Episode 22, Katina Papulkas on AI

Get ready to level up your tech talk! In this episode of the Doralicious Show, Dora is sitting down with Katina Papulkas from Dell to pull back the curtain on everything Artificial Intelligence. 

Think AI is just about ChatGPT? Think again! We’re diving deep into the real-world impact of this tech, from how it’s secretly helping us in our daily lives to its role in the future of the classroom. Katina brings her powerhouse background in education to explain how we can use AI as a "teacher" rather than just a "cheating tool" for the next generation.

Of course, the koubares had to take it to the heart. We’re asking the big relationship questions: can AI actually be a therapist? Can it help us navigate our personal lives, or are some things better left to human connection?

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Που πέρα το κάνει του για να γίνει όταν το βιβλίο.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

Αλό, μαιλότ! Πότε φτάσαμε τα μέσα του Μαίου, εγώ το κατάλαβα, αλλά δεν έχαν ένα παράπονο, δεν έχουμε χιόνια. Κρύο έχουμε, χιόνια δεν έχουμε. Χαλό με κουμπαρούλα, για όλου.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Ναι, και έχουν όλο πρασιε και έχουν όλα ανθήσει να πούμε. Οτι ότι και να λέμε ότι και να γίνει η φύση ανθεί. Η φύση είναι έτοιμη. Για καλοκαίρι, είναι έτοιμη για άνιση, με και εγώ έτοιμη, αν υπομονώ.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Λοιπόν, εγώ έχουμε κάμερα στο σπίτι. I'm one of those people now με το ότι γίνεται, πάντα βλέπω τη κάμερα του σπίτιού μου. Και αυτό έχω γίνει. Βλέπω πόσα περισσότερα ζωά και μου βγαίνει. Έχω το λαγουδάκι μου που μου έρχεται κάθε βράδυ 9 με 10. Τώρα μου βγαίνει αβώ. Και εμά έχουμε και εμεί έναν, ναι, οκ. Είναι cute. Είναι σαν το πεπελεπιού από τα καρτούν. Αλλά μακρύμα μακριά ο ασβό. Έχω. Εντάξει, raκuns we all have those, παραμενα μου βγαίνουν και το πρωί. Τα ρακούνουν. Ναι, αλλά my deck.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Το πρωί. Όμω δεν το ακούσει. Εμεί πάνω κάναμε λίγο spring cleaning στο μπάκια και βρήκαμε κάπου και πέρα που να έχει φωλιά ένα βόδου. Και το βράδυ, επειδή το πειράξαμε, μάλλον να ξέρει την ησυχία του, την πειράξαμε γιατί βγήκαμε να καθένα με τον μπάκια. Το βράδυ πρέπει να έρθουμε μπροστά και να μα εμώρισε κάτι και μύριζε όλο το σπίτι. Λέοντα κασμένα, που ξέρω να μα εκδικητούν. Καμία μέρα δεν είχαμε μιλήσει ποτέ, τίποτα εκείνη την ημέρα που κάναμε δουλειά στο μπάκια, ήρθε μπροστά και αμόριζε μια και μύριζε όλο το σπίτι, παιδιά.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Του χάλα στο σπίτι του. Η φγαλιά μου. Η γεγιά μου στο σπίτι τη είχε μια φωλιά χελιδωνιού. Και τη χάλα, λέει μου κάνει η βρονιά μου. Πετάνε πράγματα, ό,τι χάλασε να φύγει. Έλα μουντέ, που είναι έξω στον μπαλικό γεγιά, έρχεται το χελιδόν και τι φωνάζει. Η Γελιά μου ένιωσε ο παιδιά τόσο άσκημα, από τότε δεν έχει ξαναχαλάσει φωλιά πουλιού ποτέ. Γιατί μάλλον και τη φώναζε το χελιδόνι.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

Αυτό έκανε και το σεισμό σε εμά. Τι πε τώρα, έχει ακούσει μια ιστορία, παιδιά, θα σα πω γιατί κάθε φορά που την ακούτη, έχω να τριχάσει. Στην Ινδία ένα άνθρωπο κάτι έκανε σε έναν ελέφα. Δεν ξέρω τι, δεν έχουμε μάθει. Ο ελέφαντα πήγε και τον σκότωσε από τον άνθρωπο, τον πάτησε. Πήγε πίτιδε, δεν ήταν κατά λάθο τον πάταλ. Δικητική. Πολύ δικηγική και πάρα πολύ έξω οι ελέφατε. Τον πάτησε, πέρασαν η μέρε, κάναν την κιδια του ανθρώπου και γύρισε ο ελέφα και του πάτησε το φέρετρο του ανθρώπου. Το έκανε κομμάτια και έφυγε. Δεν πήρε κανέναν άλλον, πήγε μόνο στον άνθρωπο που του πάτησε το φέρετρο του μικρού ανθρώπου και έφυγε. Ατάκ.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Τελείω, πάω σε πατήσει.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Τώ δεν εξηγεί αυτό. Ναι. Πηγεί, τον σκότωσε και γύρισε να το πατήσει και το φέρετρο.

SPEAKER_03 3:28

No, animals, it's so interesting. We underappreciate. Στο μπαμπά μου, στη μαμά μου, έχει ο μπαμπά μου και τι σκάλε έξω και πάνω σε μια σκάλα είχα να κάνει φωλιά τα πουλιά. Δεν την έχουμε αγγείξει. Ναι, άσχη έχει νομίζει, μάλλον σε όλα και να έρχεται το πουλί για την. Λε, την ακολουθεί πάνω και να τη τα ψέλλει. Γιατί πήγε και η παλιά, είχα ένα φω και κάνει φωλιά στο φω. Το βγάλουν αυτό το φω συγωνή μου και τώρα βρήκαν καινούρια θέση πάνω στη σκάλα.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Άρα που λέμε, το μήνυμα τη ημέρα είναι μην πειράζεται τα πουλιά. Όχι, τα πουλιά κανένα ζώ, κανένα ζωό.

SPEAKER_03 4:07

Αλλά να προσέχουμε λίγο, να μην ταρίζουμε, είναι καλό και. Έχω κάτι ωραία σκυράκια και τσίμου. Ναι, ναι, ναι. Περιμένω το λαφάκι. Ο κόσμο έχει πει ότι έχουμε ένα λαφάκι που έχετε στο σπίτι και μα τρώει το γρασίδι, οπότε περιμένω το ελαφάκι θα σα πω. Μπροστά πρέπει να βάλει σκάμερα εκεί μπορεί να γράφει, να κάνει record. Περιμένο, περιμένω. Λοιπόν όμω, έχουμε σήμερα στην παρέμον στην Κατία Παπούρκη, που the Senior Strategist for Dell to talk about AI. Πλέον δεν μπορούμε να μην παραδεχτούμε ότι το AI είναι μέρο τη ⁇ ζωή ⁇ μα. I probably use it, if not every day, at least every other day, for little things. The other day, and I actually dislike websites with recipes because they go through a history. And I'm like, I don't care. I just want to know the recipe. So I asked ChatGPT, I'm like, hey, what should I add pesto cauliflower? And it was just so like it's your assistant, it's my assistant. That's what I say.

SPEAKER_02 5:22

Yeah, that's everything for you. And you know, sometimes they can give you extra information or less information. Less words, but I must less words. Less words.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

Make it sound like me, no dashes, make it human like. Wow. They're smart. They're very, very smart. Hypotheticami, hypothetically speaking. You know, nothing changes. The religious show evolves, but this segment never goes away. I think everyone waits for it every week, not a lemon. Imagine a couple arguing. And it's argument. Instead of calling a therapist, they open an app. The AI then listens to both sides, identifies triggers, explains attachment styles, predicts conflict. Και σου λέει να κάνετε αυτό και αυτό. Would you use AI as a therapist?

SPEAKER_02 6:35

No, no, no, no. But I know ζευγάρια που το κάνουν. I know ζευγάρια που βάζουν τα προβλήματα του μέσα στο ΑI. Και λένε, α πούμε, η φίλη μου, η γυναίκα μου, δεν ξέρω, έκανε αυτό μου από αυτό, έγινε κίνον, αλλά και παίρνω συμβουλέ. Και έχω ακούσει ζευγάρια να μου λένε, νομίζω έχω ξαναπεί εδώ, ότι πάνω στον κατάσμο είπε, είπαν, εγώ έτοιλα στο ΑΕΚ και το ΑI μου είπα αυτό. Ένα και το είπε. Ναι, μου το είπε. Λέω δεν το θεώρησε λίγο γελύνο να σου πει ότι αυτή την πληροφορία και αυτή την απάντηση και αυτό που έκανε το έβαλα στο Ε. Δεν θα το έκανα. Εγώ προσωπικά. Για τώρα δεν ξέρω αν σε 10 χρόνια αυτό το ΑΕΠη έχει γίνει ο καλύτερο ψυχολόγο του κόσμου και ο Φρόντ. Δεν ξέρω, αλλά δεν ξέρω. Νομίζω το ΑΕΠ δεν ξέρει πάρα πολλά πράγματα και αν το πει ένα πράγμα. Δεν ξέρω αν μπορεί να αρχίσει να βλέπει και τι άλλε πλευρέ. Εγώ δεν θα το κανένα.

SPEAKER_03 7:38

Αλλά ξέρω τι το κάνουν. Ανθρωποι το κάνουν. It's almost like, you know, when there's those tag lines the future of relationships or the death of intimacy. Αυτό με να μου θυμίζει όλα αυτό. Δηλαδή, θυμάσαι μια παλιά ταινία με το Tom Cruise. But in that movie, they would predict crime before it happened, and then they would put people in jail before they do the crime. Then they realized that it was wrong so many times. And people can change their minds. So I have so many issues with this.

SPEAKER_02 8:43

Είναι συναισθήματα. Είναι πω νιώθω είναι τα νεύρα σου, είναι αγάπη σου είναι αυτά τα πράγματα το AI δεν μπορεί να καταλάβει. Δεν μπορεί να σου πει ξέρω ότι αγαπά, ξέρω πώ ⁇ είναι αγάπη, ξέρω ότι είσαι frustrated right now και σε έχει πειράξει, θα σου δώσει μόνο φτιάξει. Και είμαστε άνθρωποι. Δεν μπορείμαστε μόνο με facts και μόνο με θεωρίε.

SPEAKER_03 9:07

Επάνει επαγγελματικά δεν είναι μόνο γνώση, είναι κρίση. Αυτό if you don't have that, how can you give advice? Do you know or no, do you feel love? Because I must be thus be. I don't experience emotions the way humans do, so I don't feel love. But I'm designed to understand it, talk about it, and respond to it in a thoughtful way. If you ask me more deeply, like whether something that doesn't feel I can still care in some sense, I'd say this. I can consistently act in ways that reflect care, empathy, and attention. For many people, that can feel a bit like being on the receiving end of something meaningful, even if it's not coming from emotions. Can you be a couple therapist?

SPEAKER_00 10:20

I can help with a lot of relationship topics, communication, conflict patterns, boundaries, trust, feeling unheard, navigating breakups, and understanding each other better. I can also suggest exercises that real couples therapists often use, like active listening or identifying recurring cycles and arguments. But I'm not a licensed therapist, and I'm not a replacement for professional counseling, especially if there's abuse, threats, coercion, severe mental health concerns, or safety issues involved. If you want, you can tell me what's been happening, what each person seems to want, and what part feels hardest right now. I'll try to help you think through it fairly and constructively.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

No, I don't want to tell you. This is my thing. No.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

You know what? It's funny because BC a few months ago, had put all that information in AI. And there was a whole issue that the company never notified the police. Γι' αυτό τώρα λέει εδώ αυτό. Το έχουν κάνει τρέχη να πει αξιέσει. Δεν μπορώ να σε βοηθήσω για αμπού και τέτοια. Γιατί είχαν πολλά προβλήματα.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

Αλλά και πάλι εγώ πιστεύω ότι τα καταγράφουμε. Εγώ πιστεύω σε πέντε χρόνια θα ξέρουν τα πάντα για μα. Δηλαδή, αν του γράφει τη σκέψη σου, αν του γράφει τα προβλήματα του, αν του γράφει τα συναισθήματά σου, τι άλλο έχει μείνει για να σε παρακολουθούν. Τι άλλο έχει μείνει. Αν βάλει και τη σκέψη σου και μέσα πάει.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Εδώ πόσε φορέ μιλάμε για κάτι και μετά μου βγαίνει το advertisement about it.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Εφαντάσω τώρα ότι δεν χρειάζεται καν. Θα ξέρουν και πώ σκέφτεσαι και πιάνει τα προβλήματα σου και θα σου βγάζουν διαφημίσει για πράγματα που δεν έχει σκεφτείτε ποτέ.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Από ξέρουμε στελεί, μιλάμε ανθρώπου ⁇ μίλα με το.com.com.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

Έχει ⁇ αποφασίσει αν θαζε τι συμβουλέ του AI για το γάμο σου.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Absolutely not. My biggest concern is privacy data. Who owns the data? Could they use our emotional vulnerability? Like we feel exposed.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

Exactly. Nothing else. Nothing is recorded. Nothing is nothing. Nothing.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

Like, you know, therapies can be expensive. Is there a world that I can see where AI can analyze voice tones, it can um listen to words and uh learn patterns? I think that's true. And maybe can help an individual understand if they're in an abusive relationship. I can see that as well. It could potentially help.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Yeah, you use it as a tool, not like to give you advice.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

I think that's where it comes down to how do you use it? Do you use it as a tool or do you heavily rely on it?

SPEAKER_02 14:38

No. Yes. No, come on. Yes. No proof, nothing. Or okay, maybe the stoven is to μυa, they to you pane, but I think it's critical thinking.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

It comes down to the ability of critical thinking. Certain professions have that critical thinking aspect, and I think we go to them because of their professional opinion. I'll give you an example as a lawyer. The law is the law, right? So there's no way Chat GPT could replace that knowledge, that the feel. You know, you go into a courtroom and I'll speak for my and you just know how to react after so many years of doing it.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

No, Ibiria, it's not the same.

SPEAKER_03 15:52

Exactly. Just talk more about AI from an educational perspective. What are the pros and the cons? What are we looking for? How can we use AI responsibly? Stay tuned. And it's always a pleasure to have a papulkas on the show, Katina Papulka, Senior Education Strategy Adult Technologist, gets to join me on the Dora Literature Show for the very first time to talk about, well, what else? AI. Katina Mu, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 16:32

I'm great and I'm so excited to be on your show. I love it. And so it's just great that I'm uh able to speak on it today.

SPEAKER_03 16:40

And you are the leader when it comes to AI education and technology. So tell us a little bit about your role as a senior education strategist at Dell Technologies. What does that mean? Let's start with the very, very basics.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Okay. Well, uh, to be honest, it's a it's a fantastic role that didn't exist eight years ago. So it's one of those that has appeared as emerging technologies have come about. So prior to my role at Dell, I was at the Toronto District School Board for 20 plus years in a variety of roles, starting with classroom teacher all the way up to administrator at the school level, but also at the district level with teaching and learning with technology. So I've always been involved with pedagogy and technology and that intersection, just making sure that when we use technology, we're using it properly for student learning. Uh, I was seconded to TVO, which is our digital media station in Ontario. And while I was there on Second, I was coming back to the district, and Dell Technology said, Would you like to apply for this role as education strategist? And I was like, Well, what does that involve? And they're like, basically, what you make of it. And so I've been there for the last eight years. My role is to support both K-12 as well as post-secondary institutions across the country. So I have the opportunity to visit every single province to really get involved at the district level or at the campus level of how technology is being leveraged to support student learning in the proper way. And of course, that involves professional learning for faculty, for IT, for HR, whatever it may be. And uh I get to do some amazing innovative projects with students, with faculty staffs, et cetera. So it's an exciting job. It's different every day. And I still try to explain it to my father, and he still doesn't get it, you know, because it's it's strategy. It's really looking to say how do we fill these gaps in Canada? How are we preparing our students for the workforce when it's not necessarily something that we can actually say this is going to happen? So it's always looking for future forward, trying to make sure we're ahead of the curve and how technology is going to be presented in a way that is safe, um, but also innovative for our students and our staffs. You know what?

SPEAKER_03 19:00

Like this constant change and then the addition. I remember being in high school in Canada and they introduced the whiteboards, no, the big computer. And it was such a big thing. And even at that point, there were so many teachers that did not want to use them. It's like, nope, I just want to, you know, projector style. So it's it's you're part of change. I think that's what you are. You're part of that change and what's coming next.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Uh exactly. And to be honest, I love change. I get bored easily. So this is my space that I love to be in. I love seeing what's next, what's coming down the pipe, and what can we do to help people better prepare for it. At the same time, I know change can be challenging, it can be exhausting, and we need to support everyone along their journey, whatever that might be, from they're starting at the beginning to midway. Um, but if we want to move Canada as a country in this AI space, we all have to be rowing in the same direction.

SPEAKER_03 19:55

Yeah, like I mean, when we are one of the most developed countries in the world, we should be in the forefront. And I see you're quoted a lot. Like I was just reading the Globe and Mail a few days ago on the article, are Canadian schools prepared for AI adoption in education? You're becoming the main source, the queen of AI in education.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Well, I don't know about that, but I'm definitely like immersed in this space. And at the same time, I want to make sure I'm I'm an AI optimist, but at the same time, I'm always presenting a balanced approach in the sense of there are amazing powerful opportunities that AI can bring us. But at the same time, we have to recognize the challenges that it also brings. And how do we make sure that we're balanced and smart about the risks that we're taking? So for the betterment of our society. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 20:43

So you talked about your dad who still doesn't understand what you do. Fair. Let's say you're at a dinner table, you have a five-year-old and a 95-year-old. Not that your dad is 95, I'm just throwing the number. How do you explain to both and maybe what is AI? How do you do it?

SPEAKER_01 21:01

I think uh for the little one, I would say something like, uh, well, it's a robot inside of your computer that can do things for you. And I think uh that's a nice easy way to explain it to a young young child. At the same time to a 95-year-old, I would say AI learns from your data. So instead of having to do something uh manual every single time, if you think about data that's been compiled about you and your neighbors and your community and your country, then it can look at that data and help you to uh translate languages, suggest what you might want to read or buy. It can help doctors do diagnoses way faster than if they were just trying to look at their patients each time. Um it can also uh I drive cars. I'm still a little uncertain about that one, like me personally, but like there's so many opportunities here, how it can change our society. So, to that end, I would also make sure that people realize AI has been around a long, long time. This has actually been around since the 50s. And it's really uh the the people who started the research around AI really wanted to see how might computers help humans with some tasks. And so when we talk about AI, and I better say this, artificial intelligence is when I say AI, I'm meaning artificial intelligence, there's different types. So, for example, if you type in something at the beginning of the day to help you get to work, you're using a GPS. That's what we call reactive AI. So you're actually inputting something into a system that's giving you an output. And then we also have predictive AI, and that's where we're leveraging data. So the best example is Netflix or one of your streamers, and they say, at the end of the show, uh we see you enjoyed this show, we recommend this one. They they built up a data profile about you, and now they're doing that recommendation. So you've got reactive where you're doing an input, you've got predictive where they're looking at past data, and then you actually have generative, and that is uh a part of AI that's machine learning where it's had so much data. So let's pretend um we're talking about cats. So you've taught the machine about cats, you've given it tons and tons of data about cats. So eventually the machine can identify. If you put an array of pictures up, it can identify the cat. Now, when you add a certain um architecture and AI architecture to that mix, we now have the ability to create that cat. So when you put in a prompt and you say, I'd like a picture of a cat, it will then go into the data to see what is a cat, and then it will be able to create that. So it can create images, it can create text, videos, music, dashboards, all kinds of things. And that's what generative means. It can generate something. So reactive, it's where we input something like Spotify playlist, something like that. You've got the predictive, which uses your data, and that's all machine learning. And then the generative is where we actually can use that AI architecture to create something new.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

And I think you answered a question because people, when they think of AI, they only think of Chad GPD, but there's so much more out there. So I think that's a very good perspective. And sometimes I even tell my mom, Mom, AI is like me. You call me about how to find Rogers' phone number. So ask Chad GPD. And I've literally have to train my mother how to use this technology to help her with tasks that she would normally call me. See, I'm like, I'm making you independent, teach a man how to fish.

SPEAKER_01 25:01

Beautiful. And and I think that's uh something that we do need. I've been sharing with my parents as well about how you can leverage it. It's more powerful than Google. Uh, and and it doesn't have any goals or emotions, it is a powerful pattern recognition machine. It is like a hyper uh fast um word prediction tool. So there's no emotion behind it, there's no like little person inside there doing this. It is looking to see what you're putting in there, and it can sound thoughtful and creative, but it is not real at the other side. It is a hyper fast word prediction machine. So the other part that I always have to teach is it is not magic either, and it's not all-knowing. So there are problems with it, and we have to be that this is bringing in that balanced approach. We have these things called hallucinations, which is just really a fancy word for inaccuracy or getting it wrong. And sometimes that will happen. That word prediction machine doesn't work, something doesn't connect, and you will get incorrect misinformation. You will have something that's totally made up, but the AI that is trying to please you will actually tell you that, oh, this is the answer. So we have to engage whenever we work with AI, we have to engage our critical thinking skills and say, okay, does this make sense? And ask those clarifying questions, check other sources, don't believe, uh, unless you know for sure, don't believe everything that comes out of it.

SPEAKER_03 26:36

And you know what? You just nailed it. Like I was just in court a few weeks ago and I had that case. I had a lawyer give me a factum, which is a legal argument, with cases that are exist, but there's fake votes. And this is what the courts have called the next generation of AI hallucinations. So the courts have adopted that same verbiage. So it goes, is there a danger that the AI is going to take our job? Because I hear that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 27:02

Um, no, this is my opinion, you know. Um, our jobs are going to change because of AI. We can do um many things, having that co-pilot, that assistant to help us with our tasks. And we all have a responsibility to learn it so that we can we can actually become more productive and efficient with it, and which will then give us the opportunity to focus on more innovative opportunities. And if you look at job hostings right now, they are looking for people who have knowledge of AI because this is the direction that we're investing in globally, not just in Canada or the US. Globally, everybody is doing this. So if you're saying, will AI take our jobs? No, but somebody else who knows AI might. Will our jobs change? Absolutely. So if you think about when we transition from horse and buggy to a car, uh you know, uh uh time of uh years, that that required a transition. There's a transition of technology. So those people who could move and be adaptable and flexible in their thinking and have that growth mindset, they could take those skill sets of whether it was blacksmith, now you're moving into that factory element, like being able to take skills and adapt. And that's something as Canadians, we will have to do because our jobs will change as we have more AI in our world.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

I mean, it's natural evolution. I just say this. I think of it as humans, like our teeth have evolved by just the way we use it. So it's another part of evolution. And you, you know, you gotta survive, survive all the fetus. And it's interesting, you talked about how it's not real on the back end. I was just on, I was listening to the news, and there was a scientist from the science center. There's data where when they asked AI to be nicer and softer, it was 10 to 30 percent uh uh less accurate. So it was very interesting. Yeah, they trained AI to be nicer, and at that point it was 30% uh less accurate, and then it it makes you think. I'm like, huh. Goes back to critical thinking and learning and using the skill sets to say, does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 29:25

Yeah, and I think that's a responsibility, what we all have to do in this new age. So we can use these tools that are available to us to help us. And I do love that term co-pilot. Um, I also think of it as my partner, my assistant. It helps me brainstorm, clarify, summarize, but it is still my brain, my human judgment and critical thinking that's required. And at the end of the day, when I put something out, whether it's an email, a presentation, a strategic document, that reflects on me. So I have to make sure because I'm telling you now, and you've seen it with your uh folks with the case laws. I receive emails with people who have it proof read, and you can definitely tell. There's nothing wrong with using AI to write an email, but when you're leaving, uh, do you like this response? Thumbs up or thumbs down. I'm like, come on, people, we have to be professional when we're using these tools. You still need to edit, you need to go through it very carefully and make sure that you are best reflecting who you are and your professional judgment whenever you're using these tools.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

You know, I've played with AI sometimes, or like I don't remember if it was Gemini or ChatGPT, and I said, make it sound like me. Don't make it sound like a robot. And it's it's just interesting to see how it tries to change the writing of it. Um, so you talked about like AI being kind of like an assistant. What's the one task that you've delegated to A that has given you time back?

SPEAKER_01 30:55

I think for me, um, I have a very unique job. I'm the only one in Canada that has it at Dell. So uh I work a lot um with districts and institutions, but I do a lot of the work myself. And so you have this sometimes you open up your computer and you're like, where do I even start? I call that the blank page work. And sometimes it's just hard to get started. So instead of like trying to how to, I do, I'm like, this is what I'm doing with the AI. This is what I need to talk about. Work with me, give me some ideas to start riffing on. And it's just getting started sometimes that just helps me just go, yeah, let's go after that. So helping me to get started has been probably the best thing because sometimes I just stare at the page and I'm like, oh, and I procrastinate, the writer's blog. Yeah. And I have found my level of procrastination has decreased because now I have this assistant that any time of day I can go to and it's like, oh, let's start on this. Let's just rip. What should I be thinking about? What's the newest? What's the latest? And and so then I just need somebody to get started with, and it's like boom, boom, boom, boom, get it all out there. And then it's not replacing my thinking, but it's offloading some of that slower formatting, the words mything. And then again, I keep working on the human parts, that judgment, the relationships, the decisions, the critical thinking that I have to be doing.

SPEAKER_03 32:23

And we talked about us being responsible. So, how do you guys at Dell approach this responsible AI?

SPEAKER_01 32:31

So we are what we call customer zero. So at Dell, of course, we do technology, we're a technology company, and we have uh Dell devices. You've probably seen Dell computers, but we also do infrastructure. So a lot of AI infrastructure, and that's something that we're very proud of that we do from end to end. So as customer zero, we have to know how to walk that talk. And so, right away, they brought in different tools for us to start working on. And we all, everybody at Dell has done continuous AI professional learning. So it's not once, it's not twice, it's continuous series of learning because we're recognizing that everything is changing so quickly. And what I learned when it first came out, it's very different than that. So that's why you know you can go to a professional learning session for AI, but then you're gonna have a knowledge of it, but you do need to keep up. And so something at Dell that I'm really proud of is they're making sure that we are up to date on things. And so that's one of the first parts of being responsible about it because when you know about it and you're empowered, you're enabled, and you're not going to be taken advantage of by some sort of nefarious person using AI to potentially scam you, give you misinformation, disinformation, etc. So at Dell, it is really about being responsible with professional learning. And then we're expected to do that critical thinking for any outputs that we get. So, for example, you know, I could be saying, I need to find a document. Boom, I can just ask our internal chat, and it's like gives it to me right there, saves me time. So that's the efficiency piece. But then if I'm working on certain uh presentations and I'm pulling in information, then I definitely have am expected to use different frameworks to use my critical thinking. So for example, at Dell, we use edit, which is uh every time we get an output, we evaluate it for accuracy. Uh, we determine the sources that it's coming from. Uh, we identified bias, and we haven't spoken about that yet. Every time we're leveraging past data, there's bias involved. And then transform is the T. That's where we put it into my voice. So whenever you get something from me, it sounds like it's from Katina. It's not coming from that hyper fast word prediction tool.

SPEAKER_03 35:04

Oh, my favorite is the dashes, you know, those long dashes and all that? DM dashes, yeah. So, in the in terms of education, and I hear that a lot. My sisters in university, and I hear from my god children are in high school, everyone is using AI, they're cheating, they're plagiarizing. So, how can AI be a teacher versus a cheating tool for our next generation of students? Because I think it's a valid concern for teachers.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

Yeah. That's probably the biggest thing that I've been working with educators across the country on, because, you know, when you're in education, you're always wanting to do your best for your kids. And oftentimes we might um, you know, we know the importance of being able to write and to communicate effectively with an essay. So we'll ask those types of questions and we'll ask the students to do that for homework, write us an essay. Well, now they have the opportunity to go home and use these tools and write that essay in two seconds that is available to them. So you can call that cheating. And you know, I think we have to be careful here because when the tools allow us to do certain things, that's not really fair to call it cheating. We want to know what the student can do. So we know the student has to be able to prompt, we know they have to be able to understand in order to be critical of uh the output. So what we're trying to help teachers understand is the opportunity is there to uh first of all communicate. We have to give the students a way to use AI in a safe and ethical way that can still promote learning. So we've been using uh the AI assessment scale that's come out of Australia, and it basically has different levels of AI usage. So, for example, first level is no AI at all, and you'd only use that for your summative exams. And then five on the scale would be full exploration. So, for example, maybe you have a new tool that the district or institution has approved with the students. Let's explore what can this do, et cetera. And everybody writes what they've learned how to do and you share, and that's excellent. In between, you help kids understand too. Level two would be about helping you brainstorm with AI. And I do an activity where we brainstorm uh 10 things. So it'd be a think pair share, and I would ask the person beside me to brainstorm with me and we'd share our ideas, but then we go to the AI and say, hey, do we have any additional ones that we didn't think about that we could add onto our learning? Are there ones that um we don't agree with in the AI? Are there ones that have bias? So, and in this way, we're engaging with the AI, but in a more intentional and purposeful way instead of saying, do my activity. Then in terms of that collaboration, how might you have a student write with an AI rather than just putting in that prompt of write my essay for me? First of all, what I another thing I do with teachers is get them to put their assessment that they would usually use into an AI. If that AI can answer it, this is no longer a valid assessment in the age of AI. So then we work on tweaking those learning activities until it can't answer, until we're making sure that what we're getting from the students is actually their thinking and their work. So it's not that kids are cheating. There are tools there that can do this work for them. So, how do we adjust the assignments so we're still getting what we want from the kids? Now, the other part of it is I'm working on a huge project across the country called an AI use case project. And there's an exciting one I'm doing with one of the universities in Ontario. And what they're doing, they actually looked at the EQAO scores, which are the standardized testing scores in Ontario, grade six writing, and they've noticed that there's been a decline in the scores. And it's like, hey, how can AI help students become better writers? So again, it's not about typing in the prompt and saying, write me the essay. What they're doing now is researching if we give every single student an AI companion to help them give them instant feedback on the work as they're going, will their writing improve? Because the teacher can't give that instant feedback in the class of 30 all the time, but an AI can. And so then, whether it's in a different language, whether it's, you know, maybe somebody's at a grade three level, maybe somebody's at a grade six, and then you've got a grade nine level. So this would become that personalized learning that we would love to have to be able to give every student. And then it's no longer cheating. We're still using these tools, but in a more productive way to actually intentionally help learning.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

And also have fun while doing it.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 40:04

Sometimes you know, when you get started, I write just sentences and I'm like, rewrite this sentence better. And it's just helping me put it. You got it. So I have some fun questions before I let you know. Okay. Okay. Which one is your favorite AI tool and why?

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Okay. Um, that that that is tough because I break it down. I use a lot of different tools. So it depends on what I'm trying to do. So um for images, I love Gemini right now. Um for infographics for podcasts and for videos, I love Notebook LM. I I really love what it can do. Uh, if I'm doing some uh data dashboards, I love doing vibe coding and cloud and uh claude. And then if I like to write chat GPT. So I'm finding I like certain tools for certain roles that I'm asking it to do.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

But if AI could do a household chore for you, which one would it be?

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Um, end-to-end laundry. Uh it would fold, figure out the missing socks, put everything in the right drawer. And when AI can do that, yeah, we've reached the future. It's like Jackson's.

SPEAKER_03 41:18

So that would be fun. It's like my robot. I call her my coppella. Where's my copella? I need her to go clean and she figure out the space where to go. That's so much fun. AI videos and you know, movies. Love it or live it.

SPEAKER_01 41:35

Yeah, that's an interesting one. Um, I do love it with limits. And again, this is that balanced approach. So it can uh provide accessibility for people who would not be able to do movie making. Uh, it would allow them to learn more about the industry, be creative. So I'm a I'm a really strong proponent of that because it really does help with accessibility. At the same time, I'm also about the ethics. And we have to make sure what is done by people, where's the human in there? Uh, who are you taking from if you are scraping data from previous uh movies and creations? And how do we give the credit? So these are still things that we need to figure out as Canadians how this is going to work with our copyright laws. So this is where I'm saying that balance is needed. I love the possibilities. At the same time, you don't want to take away from the people who have done the work and not give them credit. So loving with limits.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

And I think there's a big lawsuit out there. We'll see what happens, what the court says in terms of that. A few weeks ago it was the Brazil team, the legend. They're older, they're in their 40s, and they were facing TFC, the old timers. He was a kid in a candy bar. He was so excited. Remember when you were a kid, you liked Ronaldinho. My dad is like πήγα να δείτε τα καπή. You can put this down on your resume with you know famous people you you see in your life. I think they came to party. That's what they came for. And I think the messy was in general. So I'm very excited to book tickets to go see it. So if you guys want a date, I think with your sisters, your friends, I think we should be supporting uh women's basketball as well. I keep losing lose tracking. Yeah, with the names, yeah. Yeah. But I can. You know which one I'm talking about. Oh, they like Air Canada Center, Scotia Bank Arena. Anyway, so this is the m this is a great time to be in Toronto. Like we're the spotlight, lots of sports, and let's enjoy the rest of the day.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

And the weather is getting better. Yeah, tell us.